This is a partial transcript from “Hannity & Colmes,” May 4, 2005, that has been edited for clarity.
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SEAN HANNITY, CO-HOST: Ann Coulter is under attack again. On April 18, Coulter gave a speech at the University of St. Thomas in Minnesota. Critics immediately labeled the talk a hate speech and the president of the university even weighed in, saying that Coulter crossed the line and may have violated campus policy.
So is free speech under attack at American universities? Is it time to get tough on liberal hecklers? Ann Coulter joins us, the author of, what, her now fourth best-selling book, “How to Talk to a Liberal (If You Must).”
First of all, we have a bigger story about what happened last night. We’re going to get to that in just a second here, because last night was probably the worst of…
ANN COULTER, AUTHOR: No, not at all.
HANNITY: Not really?
COULTER: Last night was one of the best ones, I’d say.
HANNITY: I do occasional college speeches. But when I go in there, I know exactly what I’m getting. You expect the heckling. You expect the protesting. You expect the controversy.
COULTER: Oh, it’s a lot of fun.
HANNITY: You thrive on this. You love this.
COULTER: A good time is had by all.
HANNITY: Let’s go back to the pie-throwing incident — this guy attacked you. Where were you speaking then, in Arizona?
COULTER: Right, the University of Arizona.
HANNITY: Now, here it is. But they missed you. They have bad aim.
First, they charged them. Then they dropped the charges. And now they’ve re-charged them?
COULTER: Apparently. I only follow it through the newspaper accounts.
HANNITY: And you will testify against the people that attacked you?
COULTER: Yes, although, I keep telling them, “Yes, if you call me.” But I think the prosecutor might want to, I don’t know, talk to someone who prosecutes for a living, because the idea that they need to call me is preposterous. You just showed all the evidence they need.
That shows all elements of the crime. There’s no talking. There’s no need for cross-examination. I mean, me just going and describing it in words is not as strong evidence as that tape is. Somehow you got a hold of it. I think the prosecutor can get it.
HANNITY: Last night was really particularly vulgar. And we’ll get to that in a second. Why is this happening, though, generally speaking?
COULTER: That’s a great question. And I have to say, I would not be very happy if I were a liberal right now.
And you know, it used to be that they would stand up and try to trap you in a question, some sort of hypocrisy or something, or spring something on you, you haven’t thought of before. And, OK, that wasn’t particularly successful, but at least there was some linear thinking involved.
It is so far beyond that. They’re children having tantrums.
ALAN COLMES, CO-HOST: On behalf of liberals, I can speak for myself at least. They should let you speak, because the more you speak, the better my side looks. So I would rather have you speak.
It is wrong to attack anybody, certainly physically. You’re on that stage. You’re not a large person. Something comes at you, it’s dark. Having been on stages, people don’t understand what it’s like when you’re on a stage. You’re being charged. You don’t know what’s happening. You don’t know what’s coming.
COULTER: Right, and it’s also a sucker punch. I can put a pie in Bruce Lee’s face if he is standing giving a talk and you run at him. But I wouldn’t have missed the way they missed me.
COLMES: But the president of St. Thomas College says you violated the controversial issues policy stating that members and guests are expected to treat each other with dignity. And that’s what he is claiming about what happened there. I don’t know what that means. But I wasn’t there.
COULTER: I don’t either, but neither was he.
COLMES: Did you not treat fellow audience members with dignity in your responses?
COULTER: Far more dignity than their questions deserved. No, I’m much nicer to college liberals than I am to you, for example, because I figure you’re an adult, these are young kids.
COLMES: I can take it. I can handle it.
COULTER: Right, you can take it. So in general, I am much politer to them. I have to say St. Olaf’s and St. Thomas questions were stunningly bad, so bad I can’t even remember. I can remember the ones last night.
But I think there really is a problem on college campuses and if you want liberalism to continue in this country — I don’t — but just to give you a little tip: Liberal students are being let down by their professors, by the world.
I mean, they’re buffeted along by a liberal media. They have liberal public school teachers. They go to college. They have liberal professors. They don’t know how to argue. They can’t put together a logical thought, whereas you could put a college Republican on TV right now and he can debate you…
HANNITY: Yes, they’re good.
COULTER: … and do a credible job. But liberals, they throw food, they curse.
HANNITY: Last night, it got particularly crude. And we actually even have some video.
COULTER: You can’t show the video of the question.
HANNITY: No, we can’t. And we’re going to get reaction to this video from a speech that she was giving last night that got really out of hand in Texas.
COLMES: A student named Ajai Raj asked an obscene question and began making obscene hand gestures as the police escorted Mr. Raj out and arrested him for disorderly conduct. Here is what happened.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AUDIENCE: Let him go! Let him go! Let him go!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Let him go!
AUDIENCE: Let him go!
AUDIENCE: Shame, shame, shame!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLMES: He was arrested for asking an obscene question. I mean, what did he do that earned him an arrest?
COULTER: He asked one of the more intelligent questions from the liberals.
COLMES: Not from what I read, nothing we could repeat, even on cable.
COULTER: No, that’s right.
COLMES: No, but it was an obscene question. It was totally out of order. But why was he escorted out though? Why was he arrested?
COULTER: I don’t know. I don’t work for campus police. And I like question-and-answer. And like I said, compared to the questions the other liberals were asking, it was no worse than the other ones.
COLMES: But were you shocked?
COULTER: There were more f-words and a-words used in his question.
COLMES: Is there a part of you though that kind of enjoys the attention and the controversy from this kind of event?
COULTER: No, not the controversy and not the attempted physical attacks that have failed miserably. But no, I love the question-and-answer. I love to see liberals try to thrash their way to a coherent argument. And actually, I think it’s fun to debate.
And like I say, liberal students are really being let down because I’m not gelling that. I mean, take this question last night. Even if he removed the obscenity from it, the reason it came up was — and my controversial speech was my defense of a 5,000-year-old institution, marriage.
That’s controversial on a college campus. And I defended it by, you know, pointing out that marriage promotes civilization. You have a lack of barbarity and savagery, what you don’t see in societies without a marriage institution.
I said nothing about sodomy. I didn’t say it was unnatural, or immoral or they would be struck down by God. And he stood up and said, “Well, you were saying you respect the sanctity of marriage. Well, what about a man who goes home every night and ‘f’s his wife in the ‘a’?” So even taking out the obscenities, his question doesn’t make any sense. Oh, he’s an impressive-looking fellow, too.
COLMES: Here is my advice to liberals: They should watch the way I destroy your arguments every time you come on this show and they would be fine.
COULTER: No, I was making this point during the break. I think we have got to get college Republicans to start putting up their best debater against you on college campuses to show liberals to introduce them to the process of linear thinking and logical thought.
COLMES: I’ll see the headlines in the conservative press, “Colmes Loses to College Republican.”
COULTER: College Republicans are good debaters.
COLMES: All right, but have you ever, debated a liberal that made sense other than me? You can’t say all liberals don’t ask intelligent questions.
COULTER: It’s pretty bad on college campuses now. I have spoken at Harvard a couple of times since 2001, and they would not humiliate themselves. They were above it all. So those questions were pretty good.
Penn State, very good questions, but I don’t think those were coming from liberals. I think they were just interested students, maybe even conservatives, asking questions. Where else have I gotten good questions? I think that’s it.
HANNITY: Apparently this guy had interrupted the whole speech, correct? He was a heckler? He was one of those troublemakers?
COULTER: Yes, I can’t tell them apart. A good-looking guy like that, he doesn’t really stand out in the leftist crowd.
HANNITY: You were talking about gay marriage. And he makes this very insulting remark, apparently made some very crude gestures on the way out.
COULTER: I didn’t really notice. I was just pointing out what a persuasive point he had just made. Who was he trying to persuade by that?
HANNITY: You speak at a lot more college campuses than I ever have. But I find I usually end up fighting with the liberal college professors.
COULTER: No, they sit in the back hiding…
HANNITY: And then attack you later.
COULTER: … and then attack me when I’m gone.
HANNITY: Yes, well, that happens, too.
COULTER: Like this university professor did, apparently.
No, I thought the guy that should have been arrested was the Arab student who said he supported his fellow Arabs. He was very angry at me. And since I had been talking with enthusiasm about the recent Iraq elections, I said, “Which Arabs are you supporting? The ones who flew planes into the buildings or the ones who just voted in Iraq?”
HANNITY: What did he say?
COULTER: He wouldn’t answer. No, he is the one I want the name of.
HANNITY: He wouldn’t answer?
COULTER: Wouldn’t answer that.
HANNITY: You asked him a simple question, that question, and he wouldn’t answer?
COULTER: I support my fellow Arabs. Which ones? No, he wouldn’t answer it.
HANNITY: And what is the reaction of everyone else? You have a lot of Republicans on college campuses that love you.
COULTER: Oh, yes. No, usually, I have to say the disruptive ones are a small — and they aren’t disruptive. I mean, I like the question-and-answer.
HANNITY: Yes.
COULTER: Challenging questions are a little more fun than someone standing up and engaging in a Tourette’s Syndrome at the mike, but that’s kind of funny, too.
HANNITY: What should happen to people that are attacking speakers like you, and Buchanan, and Kristol and David Horowitz? What should happen to them?
COULTER: On the basis of what happened to the ones that physically attacked me, I hope they try it again.
HANNITY: Jail time?
COULTER: No. Apparently, the college Republican women gave them a beating they won’t forget.
HANNITY: What happened to them?
COULTER: According to eyewitnesses I talked to, one got a broken shoulder and one got a broken nose. And I mentioned again, neither of their sucker-punch surprise missiles came near me. They throw like girls.
COLMES: Well, I’m glad you’re in good health. By the way, you know, Ralph Nader has been attacked, Bill Gates, you know, the head of the Sierra Club…
COULTER: Not on college campuses and not by conservatives.
COLMES: We don’t know who did it. I don’t know if it was other liberals.
COLMES: Well, the venue is not as important as the fact that it happened. It shouldn’t happen.
COLMES: Thanks for being here. Stay safe. Stay away from pies.
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